Wikipedia‐ノート:投稿ブロック依頼/Benlisquare

Statement by User:Benlisquare

I will explain myself now then. I will try to be short and concise as possible, however I can only do so in English, because my skill in Japanese is not good.

私自身のことについて説明します。なるべく短く簡潔に記述しようと心掛けました。私は日本語が上手ではないので、英語でしか説明できません。

1. Firstly, I find it rather unfair that I have not been given a single warning, yet I am to be blocked indefinitely. First I was blocked for three days without warning, and during this period I have been unable to communicate to everyone here. Then, I have not done anything wrong after the 3 day block, and now I am to be blocked indefinitely? I do not understand the reason for this.
   1. はじめに、ひとつの警告もなしに無期限ブロックされようとしているのは、いくぶんアンフェアだと感じます。まず警告なしに3日のブロックを受け、その間は皆と連絡を取ることはできませんでした。3日のブロックの後に何も悪いことはしていないのに、次には無期限ブロックされるのですか？私には理由が分かりません。
2. Regarding "超级牛屄", I did not know that it would cause that much hassle, and so I have tagged the image for deletion (it should be gone by now). However, I do believe this is a misunderstanding, and I did not intend to mean any malice to the Japanese Wikipedia community. First of all, "超级牛屄" is a Chinese phrase, it is a commonly used slang term among young people in China, and it roughly means "very awesome". Do a google.hk search (Chinese websites only) for 牛屄, 牛比， 牛鼻， 牛B， NB (they all mean the same), and you will see that usage is very common. It is commonly used on blogs and forums on the internet. I did not know that it would be considered to be considered inappropriate in the Japanese language, and this is a mistake on my part, and I apologise for that. However, I do not believe that this mistake warrants for a permanent block. I also recall that Wikipedia has a "not censored" policy - is this the case on the JA Wikipedia? This also seems to have no relation to the earlier issue with User:HighSpeed-X, that I have already expressed that I would stop for here.
   1. 「超級牛尸<穴」について。私はこれがそれほど論争を引き起こすものとは知りませんでした。そこで、削除のためのタグを貼りました。しかし、これは誤解だと思います。私は日本語版ウィキペディアコミュニティに対する悪意を意図してはいませんでした。まず、「超級牛尸<穴」は中国語の言い回しで、中国では若い人々の間で広く使われる俗語であり、おおまかに言って「とても素晴らしい」という意味です。牛尸<穴、牛比、牛鼻、牛B、NB は全て同じ意味で、広く使われていることが分かるでしょう。インターネット上のブログやフォーラムでよく使われています。私は、日本語でこの語が不適切と見なされることを知りませんでした。私のミスであり、それについては謝罪します。しかし、この誤りが恒久的なブロックに値するとは思えません。私はまた、ウィキペディアは「検閲をしない」という方針を持つことを指摘したいと思います。日本語版にもこの方針はありますよね？また、この件は最初の User:HighSpeed-X との問題とは関係ないようです。最初の件については、すでにここで止める意思を表明しています。
3. Regarding "目糞鼻糞を笑う", I also did not know that this would be considered inappropriate. What I thought was that "目糞鼻糞を笑う" derives from the Japanese equivalent of the English idiom en:pot calling the kettle black, which is a very common everyday thing to say in the English language. I obtained "目糞鼻糞を笑う" from wikt:en:pot calling the kettle black, believing it to be a translation of the English phrase, and I was unaware that it would have any negative connotations in the Japanese language. Also, wikt:ja:目糞鼻糞を笑う does not say anything like "Warning: This phrase is rude, don't use it" or anything similar, so I did not know that it was considered rude. I also apologise for this mistake.
   1. 「目糞鼻糞を笑う」について。この語も不適切と見なされることを知りませんでした。英語のイディオム pot calling the kettle black（ポットが薬缶を黒いと言う）と同じ意味と思っていました。このイディオムは、英語でよく使われます。私は「目糞鼻糞を笑う」というフレーズを en:pot calling the kettle black から得て、英語のイディオムの訳だと信じました。そして、日本語で悪い意味を持つことに気付きませんでした。また、wikt:ja:目糞鼻糞を笑うにも「このフレーズは無礼だから使うな」といった警告はありませんから、私はこれが無礼だとは知り得ませんでした。このミスについても謝罪します。
4. Regarding User:HighSpeed-X's edit here, I actually felt very worried. User talkpages on Wikipedia represent my own personal identity. My username is closely linked to who I am in real life. Having those keywords is illegal in China, as far as I know, and this is very serious. I might even possibly be arrested and jailed next time I travel to China, because of this.
   1. User:HighSpeed-X's の ここでの編集について。私は実際にとても苦しんでいます。ウィキペディアにおける利用者の会話ページには、個人のアイデンティティが現れます。私の利用者名は、私が現実社会において誰であるかに直結しています。私の知る限り、これらのキーワード（訳注: HighSpeed-X による政治的に微妙な内容のこと）は中国では違法ですから、事はとても深刻です。このために、次に中国へ行ったときに私は逮捕、投獄されるかもしれません。
5. Now, my understanding of Japanese is poor (I am using Google Translate machine translation, as well as basic first-grade Japanese and guessing using Kanji), so I may have misinterpreted this, but User:T34-76 wrote something like "他言語共同体での行いを..." or something similar. I can't 100% understand what he wrote, but it looks like he meant that people who can't understand Japanese can't edit on the Japanese Wikipedia, correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know, WP:PILLAR (W:五本の柱) opposes this.
   1. 私の日本語に対する理解は不十分で、簡単な日本語や漢字を推測するためにグーグルの機械翻訳を用いていますから、誤解を生じるかもしれません。User:T34-76 は "他言語共同体での行いを..." などと書いています。何を書いているのか 100% 理解はできませんが、日本語を理解できない者は日本語版ウィキペディアを編集してはならない、という意味のように見えます。間違っていたら正してください（訳注: 間違っているので下で正した。ただし、User:Centaurus はこれに近いことを主張していると指摘しておく）。私の知る限り、これはWikipedia:五本の柱に反しています。
6. The remainder of my arguments can be summed up entirely in Chris' post earlier (since I was unable to edit due to a username and IP block, I tried to get a friend to talk for me), you can see his post here.
   1. 私の言い分の残りは、先のクリスによる投稿に見ることができます。私がブロックされて編集できなかったので、友達に私のために投稿してもらうよう試みたものです。

I hope I am able to clear up any problems that I may have here. Thank you for reading. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 2010年11月16日 (火) 11:25 (UTC)

私が抱えているであろう問題を解決できていることを望みます。読んで下さってありがとうございます。-- 白駒 (en-1) による日本語訳。なるべく直訳を心掛けたつもり。2010年11月16日 (火) 22:08 (UTC)

Comment for 1: The first block is temporary judgment by User:Ks aka 98. A result of jawiki community's discussion has priority over a judgment by one admin. If your acts before the first block are regarded as rude or malicious, you may be blocked again.

最初のブロックは Ks aka 98 さんによる一時的な判断でした。コミュニティの審議による結果の方が、ひとりの管理者の判断に優先します。もしブロック前のあなたの行動が無礼または悪質と見なされたら、再びブロックされることもあり得ます。

Comment for 5: No, s/he roughly claimed "many Japanese cannot read other languages, so we need not consider the incidents outside jawiki". I don't agree this claim.

5 に対するコメント: いいえ、彼/彼女は、おおまかにいって「多くの日本人は他の言語を読めないから、日本語版の外での出来事を考慮する必要はない」と主張しました。私はそれに同意しません。

Comment for 2 and 3: You claimed 牛屄 is used commonly. I agree. Similarly, the word fucking is used so commonly. But we shouldn't use such word in public places, should we? You have deleted the file on jawiki, but still use it on enwiki, etc. You know the etymology of 牛屄? If not so, you should check it using dictionaries. I also point out 糞 means shit.

2, 3 に対するコメント: あなたは「牛屄（尸 + 穴）」が広く使われると主張しました。それはそうなのでしょう。同様に、fucking という語は大変広く使われます。しかし、我々はそれを公の場で使うべきではないでしょう？あなたは日本語版のファイルを削除しましたが、英語版などではまだ使っています。「牛屄」の語義を知っている？知らないならば、辞書で調べるべきです。「糞」が shit の意であることも指摘しておきます。

--白駒 2010年11月16日 (火) 21:54 (UTC)

• Comment for 2: 牛屄 does not have negative connotations in the Chinese language however. It is a term used with a positive attitude, and is never used to offend or put down anyone, albeit having a bad etymology (I agree with you on that). The word "fucking", however, is commonly used to attack another person. In this case, comparing the two words would be like comparing apples and oranges, to some degree. In Chinese "牛屄" can be used to praise things or people; for example, I can say "姚明很牛屄" (Yao Ming hen niu bi), which means "Yao Ming is very awesome". "牛屄" is never used as an attack phrase. Nevertheless, I have already removed it from JA Wiki, given that it is looked down upon here. However, EN (英語) Wiki and ZH (中国語) Wiki are not made up of a majority of Japanese speakers; most Chinese speakers would be able to understand what I mean, and wouldn't have a problem with it being on my ZH Wiki userpage. It also is not against userpage policy on the EN Wiki either; I have not been warned, and also, there is more than one user that uses the image on their userpage (I am not the only one). No users have so far been warned for using the image, and most Chinese speakers on the EN Wikipedia are aware of what it means. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 2010年11月17日 (水) 05:16 (UTC)
  • Also, following my discussion with you here, I have chosen to change the file on EN and ZH Wiki (You may need to purge your internet browser's cache in order to see the difference). I have censored the file so that it no longer says "超级牛屄", but rather "超级牛B", so that it cannot be misinterpreted in Japanese as an offensive word. I hope this will allow me to reconcile with everyone else here. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 2010年11月17日 (水) 06:24 (UTC)
• Comment for 3: I am now aware of the degree of rudeness behind "糞". I initially believed that "鼻糞" was the Japanese word for "snot" or "nose discharge" (That is what the English-Japanese and Chinese-Japanese dictionaries told me), and the word "snot" in English is an everyday word that is said all the time. I was aware that "kuso" meant "shit" in Japanese, however, I prevously was unaware on the degree of acceptance within Japanese speech. You see, depending on society, words such as "shit" can be accepted in different degrees and ways. For example in Australia, it is very common for men, and young women, to say "fuck" and "shit" on the street. Having lived in Australia all my life, I've been accustomed to the Australian way of thinking. Japan might have a completely different attitude towards swearing compared to Australia. There was a time when even the former Prime Minister of Australia, Kevin Rudd, said the word "Shitstorm" during a parliamentary session, and former Prime Minister Bob Hawke has said "fuck" many times on television before - I guess being lewd is a part of Australian society, and I should not have been so ignorant to continue my usual behaviour on here. I do admit that I should not have said "fuck" and "shit" to User:HighSpeed-X when I was angry, and that it was an inappropriate thing to say on Wikipedia. Regarding "糞", I was under the assumption that it is a word that is said when someone is upset - I am a frequent watcher of アニメ, and my ex-girlfriend has occasionally introduced me to some Japanese TV shows, and many of the characters say the words "糞", "chikusho", "kisama" and "damare" alot when they were angry, so I assumed that it was a word used to express anger. I did not know that it was looked down upon that much in real life. Again, this is my mistake based on my poor interpretation and judgement, and I take full responsibility for my poor actions. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 2010年11月17日 (水) 05:24 (UTC)

As you know, 牛屄 means cow's cunt. You also used similar words in English. I asked about the word 牛屄 my colleague, who is Chinese and an expert of Chinese language. The answer was follows: "the word is extremely insulting, and cannot have good meaning". See also this webpage.

知っての通り、牛屄は「牛まんこ」を意味します。あなたは英語でも似たことばを使っています。私は中国語の専門家である中国人に「牛屄」について尋ねました。答えは「非常に侮辱的であり、良い意味を持つはずがない」でした。こちらのページも参照してください。

I know you are worried by User:HighSpeed-X, who wrote many thoughtless messages on your talk pages. However, I don't think you are allowed to say abusive words. You also made a personal attack on enwiki before HighSpeed-X's vandalism.

あなたの会話ページたちに多くの浅慮なメッセージを書いた User:HighSpeed-X に悩まされたことは分かります。しかし、あなたが悪態をついてよいとは思いません。HighSpeed-X による荒らしの前に、あなたは英語版でも個人攻撃をしています。

--白駒 2010年11月18日 (木) 08:49 (UTC)

I agree that I have made inappropriate personal attacks, and I agree that I have said things that are rude. I do not dispute that what I have done is something that is inappropriate for Wikipedia. I do concede that I have made wrongdoings. What I am more worried about is whether an indefinite block (無期限) is necessary based on this incident. What is the exact purpose of blocking me indefinitely? So that I never do anything again? I personally am fine with a time-period block (e.g. 1月，3月，6月，1年，etc etc), however I don't really like the idea of 無期限. I am a long term editor on EN Wiki, and I have been editing there since 2005, and I also intend to continue editing in the future. I occasionally make interwiki edits to wikis such as ZH, JA, KO, etc, and a permanent block here will make editing very difficult. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 2010年11月18日 (木) 09:11 (UTC)

Other comments

(I don't entirely understand what you have written, but I'm guessing that you think I'm going off-topic. I am not trying to 審議妨害.) What I am saying is that this is a mistake on my behalf, and I take full responsibility for what I have done. I am willing to make a compromise. However, I do wish that I not be blocked for 無期限, and this request is placed at the discretion of the JA Wikipedia community. I have no power to make any decisions; I can only hope that the community is willing to give myself a second chance. I believe that 無期限 is a bit too much - just for this one incident, I will not be able to make edits to the JA Wikipedia in 2 years, in 5 years, even in 10 years. A time-period block is okay, but in my opinion 無期限 is too much. People change. The "me" two years later will not be the "me" today - I don't think that down the track, I should remain blocked forever, simply due to this one incident. Right now I am 19歳; in 10 years I would be 29歳 and a completely different person. My compromise is that I have done all that I can do - I have regretted my actions; I have removed some of my comments in good faith, for the sake of reconciliation; now it is up to everyone if you are willing to forgive me or not, and if you are willing to reduce the punishment from 無期限 to something less detrimental. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs 2010年11月17日 (水) 11:23 (UTC) Wikipedia:投稿ブロック依頼/Benlisquare 2010年11月17日 (水) 11:28 (UTC) の版より。--白駒 2010年11月18日 (木) 08:43 (UTC)