利用者‐会話:VChang (WMF)

日本語版ウィキペディアの利用者の皆さん、この利用者トークページへようこそ。「運動戦略とガバナンス」に関する質問や指摘がおありでしたら、どうぞ遠慮なくご連絡ください。日本語で、あるいは書きやすい言語で記してくだされば幸いです。

--VChang (WMF)（会話） 2022年8月12日 (金) 08:17 (UTC)

運動戦略関連の発信はローカルの言語で（お願い・井戸端）

コメント 中間まとめ（2022年8月15日時点）：日本語に配信する『運動戦略ニュースレター』は英語ではなく、日本語版を作成してはどうか。（例：第7号）戦略イニシアティブにかかげる「誰もとりこぼさない」にご配慮願いたい。井戸端でも関連の議論がある。

• 発信の担当者は複数言語への翻訳を既に手がけていて、マンパワーとして堪能でない日本語への翻訳はうけられないのではないか。
• ウィキメディア運動全体に関する定期的な配信を利用者が読めるようにしてほしい。広報に割り当てる予算と資源が課題では。

ビビアン・チャンさんの回答

言語が明らかな障壁であることをよく承知している。東アジア東南アジア大洋州地域（ESEAP）を担当する自分も、より多くの地域の皆さんに働きかけ、声を聞き取って反映したい。背景と経過を説明（以下）。調整役（ファシリテーター）の着任まで、空白の期間はコミュニティの有志に翻訳のご助力をあおげないものか。

1. ニュースレター配信の背景の説明。課題としてウィキメディア財団の新年度予算案に盛り込んである。
2. 日本語コミュニティ担当のファシリテーターを探し求人（job post）を出した。
3. ウィキメディア財団の翻訳に関する取り組みは、より広範な目標「通訳と翻訳」をあげており、詳細が固まり次第、お知らせする所存（まとめ注：2022-23年度予算案：第4の達成目標）

以上に対応する全文版は、いずれ下位ページへ移すとよいかもしれません。

@VChang (WMF):, it would look more spacy/welcoming I guess, and kindly tell me if I could archive/move the full discussion to your user:VChang_(WMF)/[subpage]. Cheers, --Omotecho（会話） 2022年8月16日 (火) 03:33 (UTC) まとめ文責

Please consider dropping Movement releases in local language (Village Pump)

@VChang (WMF), hello, I have noted that the ja community has been experiencing discomfort that ever since the Movement Strategy discussion has entered into its 3rd phase, there comes multiple *notices* provided in English language ONLY. That is contributing for a situation where you are loosing interest towards the very subject of those releases.

How come you suggest "we are inclusive", like in this release? As you see, it's archived without anybody to turn it into local language. Try counting the per centage you are forced to read sections in non-native language, and I doubt the same ratio applies to enwp Village Pump.

Kindly think about preparing your releases on this essential theme in multiple languages, and preferably please look back to the ratification votes where ja community has moved forward from listeners' seat to speakers' stand. I would appreciate your kind consideration as well as practical reaction very soon.

FYI, I am leading you to the heated debate at our "Village pump" over creaging subpage to "Village pump" where non-ja releases will be stored, and ppl can read releases in ja language more comfortably. Cheers, and please excuse me if I am too upset to describe the situation more calmly. Kindly, --Omotecho（会話） 2022年8月8日 (月) 07:22 (UTC)

Hello @VChang (WMF), @Omotecho may read what I posted at the the Japanese Wikipedia.

It's:

Vivian is responsible for more than 5 languages on her own. She does all the translations for her native language and one other language that she is fluent in. She is also the sole person in charge of community outreach in these two languages. In addition to languages, she has several projects related to governance.

She is aware of the criticism of machine translation in the Japanese community. She knows that there is criticism not only in the Japanese community, but also in other Asian languages.

If we were to ask her to translate a document "in Japanese," it would be very difficult to give special treatment to Japanese only. If we were to translate it, we would need to do the same for all the unknown languages we are responsible for. In that case, the delay in notification would be a week or more. The assumption is that she will work more service overtime every day and still work service overtime on weekends.

Vivien, I'm very sorry that I've increased your workload. At least one person has applied to be a Japanese language facilitator. I was contacted by the person. Hope your super busy days will be lessened.--YShibata（会話） 2022年8月9日 (火) 02:16 (UTC)

No, please don't tell that I have asked them to translate into ja by themselves, or have I ?

IMHO, if somebody circulates a petition to arrange for multiple language translation, and if it is a serial/periodical like the MSG Newsletter, with its volume, you need to have evidence to persuade people/teams concerned. It asks for a wise use of budget.

• Look at how short Tech News weekly is written. Sure, it's a weekly, and can sum up updates only. That's why I stay on the translation drive.

Then, with MSG Newsletter, a three times per FY publication, we are aware that:

• it needs a Table of Contents type facepage, with multiple links;
• Each linked page is updated with word counts much longer than four issues of Tech News, if I may compare.

That is not a workload feasible for any independent staff to carry, as far as they are multi-tasked.

We surely can win-win when internationalized MSG Newsletter will be circulated, people want to read more in their mother language, and I believe we are trying to have more community members come to monitor/discuss for our common future towards year 2030.

Believe me, I am not that Cruella to have somebody carry such a heavy staff, like putting one hundred and one puppies on a single person's shoulders, *never*. (; Let's look at the big picture together. Cheers,--Omotecho（会話） 2022年8月9日 (火) 03:07 (UTC)

Hello Vivien,

@Omotecho has been the best and only one devoting volunteer for translating almost all META pages for over 5 years.--YShibata（会話） 2022年8月9日 (火) 08:25 (UTC)

Hi YShibata, thanks for sharing this :-) This is amazing work really! How are you? Hope everything is going well!--VChang (WMF)（会話） 2022年8月9日 (火) 16:43 (UTC)

@YShibata-san, let me sum up those two ways we are moving on side-by-side: you are including a particular team workload, and I am talking about dreams. Do we agree on that? Too bad WMF does not have an "international room" which many sectors of NGOs operates to tackle how they expand their sphere of activities.

:> If we were to translate it, we would need to do the same for all the unknown languages we are responsible for. In that case, the delay in notification would be a week or more. The assumption is that she will work more service overtime every day and still work service overtime on weekends.

Yes, I am asking WMF will translate its releases at least into major language population /edit counts per capita. Is it ten? twenty? Who else does such a dreamy task or pioneer to publish releases in so many languages? UN has six languages, that's all, and ja is not among them I remember.

Sorry if I sound biting, but I have a hunch you and I are seeing the same picture, and showing the multiple angles where you stand and describe what you see. I appreciate very much I am not alone (=--Omotecho（会話） 2022年8月12日 (金) 01:58 (UTC)

Hi Omotecho, many thanks for your message and for raising this important issue; I really appreciate it! To share a bit of the background, the Movement Strategy and Governance team is moving toward having a more regional focus in our work to better support different regions - which aligns with the annual plan of the Foundation. This is hoping to ensure that different communities' voices as well as participation could be weighed in a more equitable way. Under this context, I am therefore supporting the ESEAP region on Movement Strategy and Governance related matters.

Having said that, we do acknowledge that there are cases where language is a clear barrier as you rightly pointed out. Our team is committed to continuing to serve the JA communities; as you may have already seen, there is a job post opening for this purpose. Therefore, the current situation of sharing updates in EN is rather interim; I know this is not a great response, but I do hope that there are community members willing to provide support regarding communication in Japanese in the meantime to help on this matter.

On broader language support from the Foundation side, this is also in the annual plan. We can share with you more once there is further concrete development.

In the meantime, please do not hesitate to reach out to us if you have any questions or further feedback. If you have ideas of how to better share the announcements during this period of time, kindly let us know as well. Thank you so much! --VChang (WMF)（会話） 2022年8月9日 (火) 09:26 (UTC)